This episode is presented by Mercury. When I started How I Write, I expected finances to be an absolute nightmare. I’ve got team members in four different countries. Things like taxes, currency exchange, expenses — I was dreading it. But here’s the crazy thing: four years in, banking has been maybe the easiest part. I honestly can’t remember running into a single problem! And that’s because I’ve been using Mercury.
I switched over from other, more traditional banks because Mercury is so well designed. It’s easy to get started and easy to use, while also feeling totally legit and secure. Mercury gives me all the tools to run a global company like virtual cards, unlimited users, and the ability to customize each user’s access level to exactly what they should see. And you know what: if anything goes wrong, their support line is super responsive (and actually thoughtful), which is really rare these days. I genuinely can’t imagine trying to run my business without Mercury.
Tish Rabe has written more than 200 children's books. She's written for Disney and Sesame Street, and also after Dr. Seuss died in the early 90s, she started writing Dr. Seuss books. When she did, she really leaned into his distinct style.
So I said, "You've been doing this for 40 years now. Can you teach me what you know about writing stories, bringing characters to life, rhythm and rhyme, and that unique flow that Dr. Seuss books are so famous for?"
Beyond the tactics, this conversation will help you lighten up a bit and have a lot more fun with your writing.
Enjoy!
Transcript
00:01:54 How Tish got started
00:04:40 Write the ending first
00:07:44 How to structure a story
00:09:42 Hooking young readers
00:12:40 How Tish edits her books
00:15:50 What makes a book fun
00:18:06 Use page turns for suspense
00:21:53 What makes a great illustrator
00:25:04 The 3 components of a story
00:28:04 How words and images interact
00:34:08 Write from a kid’s pov
00:37:36 How Tish works with composers
00:38:32 Storytelling references
00:42:36 Write inspiring, not sad stories
00:45:04 Covers, titles, and layout
00:49:48 How to rhyme on command
00:56:46 Teaching via stories vs facts
01:03:06 The business of children’s books
01:08:53 How to avoid writer’s block
01:14:08 Lessons from self-publishing
01:20:44 Biggest business landmine
David (01:54-02:11):
Today, I want to learn how you write children’s books and explore everything you’ve learned. We’ll delve into tactics later, but first, I’d like to hear about your career and all you’ve accomplished.
Tish (02:11-03:03):
I have a degree in vocal performance. Right out of college, I came to New York, expecting to be a star within nine months to a year. It didn’t quite work out that way.
The good news is, I got a job as the music production assistant on Sesame Street, Season 3. I always tell this story, but at that point, I really wanted to sing for Jim Henson and the Muppets. My first job was hiring jingle singers in Manhattan to sing with the Muppets.
All day long, I was coordinating, “Hi, Linda, can you make tomorrow two to four?” while all I wanted to do was sing with the Muppets. Soon after, one of the composers asked me to sing. My first big song was “I Love Trash”—anything dirty, dingy, and dusty—with Oscar.
David (03:03-03:06):
Oh, “I Love Trash.”
Tish (03:07-04:12):
I sang with Oscar, Kermit, and Big Bird. I also sang on the albums and for Christmas specials. It was so much fun.
Back then, they didn’t have any books, so they asked if we had any ideas for them. I pitched my idea about breaking my grandmother’s big, valuable teapot and how my mother told me she loved me more than any teapot.
They asked me to write a book for Bert. This became “Bert and the Broken Teapot,” which is long out of print. In the book, Bert breaks David’s teapot and spends the entire story trying to fix it. In the end, he tells David he’s afraid David won’t be his friend anymore. I incorporated my mother’s words, “I love you more than any little teapot.” So, in the book, David asks Bert to help him in his store the next weekend. This was my first book.
David (04:13-04:14):
What year was this?
Tish (04:14-04:15):
1986.
David (04:15-04:16):
Wow.
Tish (04:16-04:32):
After that, I wrote for everyone: Big Bird, Clifford, Curious George, Bear in the Big Blue House. The list went on and on. I kept writing, which is why I’ve completed over 200 children’s books. I started really early.
David (04:32-04:36):
That’s an insane career! You’ve been writing for kids for 40 years?
Tish (04:36-04:40):
That’s correct. It’s incredible.
David (04:40-04:45):
Where did you pick up the idea of starting with the end? Was it from Sesame Street?
Tish (04:45-06:12):
With the end, yes. The Sesame Street writers were incredibly talented, funny, and a bit crazy. I’d take notes at the writers’ meetings and watch ideas fly around.
One of the big things was to write the ending first. If you watch those comic skits, the premise is funny, the costumes are funny, and the whole thing is hilarious, but where is it going? What’s the punchline? So they wrote things in reverse. They wrote the ending, then backed into the story.
This is a book of mine that just came out, “Kindness is Caring, Friendship is Sharing,” which I wrote with the Trumbull Rotary Club. They’re an organization that tries to make the world a kinder, gentler place, and given how things are going, this is exactly the right time for such a book.
This is a perfect example. I wrote the end first. It says: “The friends watched Azizi fly by. As they stood together, they thought of the ways we can make the world better. As the sun started to set, they knew in their hearts that kindness and caring, friendship and sharing are the best ways to start.”
David (06:13-06:15):
So you have all that written?
Tish (06:15-06:16):
Yes.
David (06:16-06:17):
Before you write the first page?
Tish (06:17-07:44):
Yes, I do. That’s because I need to know. For instance, here’s a good thing about writing: you have the start here. It’s a beautiful day. Zizi flew by, singing, lighting up the sky with his beautiful wings. Everything’s going well, and we have an ending where they’re all friends. But something has to happen.
Of course, in this case, a hungry lion appears. What I learned from writing science for Dr. Seuss for a very long time is that when zebras are threatened, they huddle together so all their stripes blend into each other. The lion can’t distinguish where one zebra starts and another begins.
I also share with kids that a zebra’s stripes are absolutely one of a kind, just like our fingerprints. No two zebras have the same pattern. In the story, the zebras quickly surround Amani and her mother, and all their stripes blend together. The lion gives up and goes away without hurting anyone. It’s a great example of helping out, cooperating, and saving someone else.
David (07:44-07:49):
You have that last page.
Tish (07:49-07:49):
Yes.
David (07:49-07:56):
Walk me through how you go from the last page to the first, and then the story, including the zebra and the lion. How does all that unfold?
Tish (07:56-08:24):
When I write these books, I always think of them in three parts: beginning, middle, and end. You have your beginning. Where will this take place?
The first thing I thought of was that Rotary is an international, worldwide organization. I’m not setting this story for them in PS142, New York. I’ll do another book in PS142, New York, but for this one, I wanted...
David (08:24-08:25):
What is PS142?
Tish (08:25-09:42):
It’s a public school. But I wanted the African plains. The first thing I did—and I urge everyone to do this—is figure out your characters’ names early. I Googled African names, and Amani, starting with the letter A, was at the top of the list for girls. Amani means peace in Swahili. So now I had her name. I had the little girl, the little zebra, and her name.
She’s in Africa. The point of the book is learning to share and care for others. She starts gathering flowers, giving some to a giraffe and a little baby elephant taking a bath. Things are going fine.
Then, the lion shows up. Everyone has to cooperate and help each other to stay away from the lion. That’s a good example of the story’s arc: a gorgeous, fabulous beginning; a middle with the lion creating a problem; and a wonderful, peaceful, happy ending.
David (09:42-10:01):
How do you hook kids and draw them into the story? Many stories start with immediate action, like the part right before someone gets eaten by a bear. This story is a little different. Things are good; it’s a peaceful, sunny day on the plains. How do you approach that?
Tish (10:02-12:16):
The most important thing, I think, is to create characters kids will like. Amani is a very sweet little zebra, about seven years old. One thing I urge people to do is know the target age for their children’s book. There are basically two main categories.
One is zero to four, like the sleep book I have here. This book, *Sweet Dreams Ahead: Time for Bed,* is a good example for that age group. It helps kids slow down. The text is very slow, with few words per page: “It’s time for us to end our day. Time to tuck the day away.” It covers things like brushing teeth and taking a bath. You can almost fall asleep just reading it out loud.
Of course, we have the beautiful illustration everyone loves. This is a hand drawing by London artist Jill Guile, and you can see that everyone is beautifully asleep. In this one, as you know, I’m trained as a professional singer. I have to put a song in every book because that’s what I do. The song goes:
Night is here, today is done. It’s time to sleep, my little one. Now it’s time to feel the day softly, slowly slip away. Tomorrow will be bright and new, And I will share it all with you. Now the sky’s lit by the moon. Sweet dreams will be coming soon. So close your eyes and when you do, Know now and always I love you.
This is a good example for the 0 to 4 age group. Then, for a book like the one we discussed earlier, you’re looking at 4 to 7, which is the next age group up. We urge everyone to create characters that are older than their target audience, because kids love to look up to older children and people. It’s a fundamental and effective strategy.
David (12:16-12:23):
Two or three years older. They were the coolest kids in the entire world. I remember being a kindergartner and thinking, “Oh my God, the second graders, the third graders!”
Tish (12:23-12:40):
I know, they’re so cool. It’s a very effective strategy. Many schools now have high school kids read to kindergartners because they look like grown-ups but are still kids. It’s a lot of fun. So, know your age group and what you’re trying to communicate.
David (12:40-12:50):
How do you go about editing these books? Do you do it with actual kids? Do you feel like you have a felt sense for how an eight-year-old would respond differently from a four-year-old?
Tish (12:50-13:14):
I’ve been doing this for so long that I’ve developed a sense of what works and what doesn’t. I write version after version. By the time it’s first seen by anyone, it’s already been through extensive rewriting. This happens before I share it with an editor or even my own kids.
David (13:14-13:16):
Is that in Microsoft Word, or where do you do it?
Tish (13:16-15:35):
I write in spiral notebooks. It’s all written by hand. I urge everyone to always have paper with them. I carry it in my pocketbook, have notebooks in my car, and notebooks next to my bed at night. You never know when you’ll come up with something.
As a Chinese proverb says, “lines on a paper are worth a million dreams,” because you can’t remember. You wake up the next day and think, “Didn’t I have an idea to name one of these seagulls something else?” And then it’s gone.
Pacing is important. The pacing of that little “Go to Sleep” book was very slow. For an older audience, you can put more on a page. If they’re older readers, you can include eight lines of rhyme. For little ones, you might only put one rhyming line on a page to slow it down.
This is especially true for naming characters. Kids remember names. My granddaughter knew her name was Amani before I even opened the book. That truly resonates with kids if they have a name they really like.
I have a funny story about trying to name the seagulls for “Mystic by the Sea is the Best Place to Be,” a book I wrote because I live in Mystic, Connecticut. I literally Google everything to see if a name is already taken, even if someone just wrote it on a Christmas card. If it’s taken, I don’t use it for my characters. You just have to come up with something else.
Everything was gone: Sylvester Seagull, Sadie Seagull, Sophie Seagull, Sandy Seagull, which was my personal favorite. That was gone immediately. At a meeting in Mystic, someone suggested, “You’re going for ‘S’ for seagull; why don’t you go for ‘M’ for Mystic?”
I hadn’t imagined naming these three seagulls with ‘M’ words, like Marina, but it worked out all right. It’s funny how that happened.
David (15:35-15:39):
“Mystic by the Sea is the Best Place to Be.”
Tish (15:40-15:50):
Yes, and the verse goes: “Hi, my name is Mason. I’m happy to meet you. Meet my wife, Marina, and our kids, Marco and Misty, too.”
David (15:50-16:03):
As I read a few of your books this morning over breakfast, two words came to mind: fun and light. What are you aiming for?
Tish (16:04-16:44):
I like them to be fun to read and fun to read aloud because, of course, everyone reads to kids. I also want readers to come away with something. That’s why I care so much about the final page in a children’s book.
The final page leaves a lasting impression before you shut the book, before they go to sleep, before they go outside to play, or before they leave for school. In the book I wrote for military families, the last page had to resonate with them because they are apart all the time.
David (16:45-16:47):
“Sometimes apart, always in my heart.”
Tish (16:47-18:03):
Yes, that’s a very nice one: “Sometimes apart, always in my heart: Helping military families send love from far away.” I wrote this with a nonprofit called United Through Reading. What they do is so moving.
They record deployed service members reading children’s books to their kids. It’s a little video. Imagine this: I’m reading the book to my granddaughter, showing her the pages. Then, they send a brand new copy of the book to every child. So, when the kids are in New Jersey watching Mommy or Daddy on the TV or computer read to them, while the parent is in Afghanistan, they can see the pages and see their parents.
In this book, Daddy Bear has been deployed. The last two pages, which I’m famous for, say: “It’s always hard to say goodbye when I have to go. But the next time I give you a hug, I’ll know I am home.”
David (18:04-18:04):
Aw.
Tish (18:05-18:06):
I know.
David (18:06-18:17):
Wow. This is really important. A lot of what’s happening with a children’s book is that there’s a kind of suspense with the page-turning.
Tish (18:17-18:18):
Right.
David (18:19-18:30):
A page carries a weight in a children’s book that it doesn’t in a novel. The difference between page 393 and 394 in a novel is not like the difference between page seven and eight in a children’s book.
Tish (18:30-18:31):
Absolutely.
David (18:31-18:39):
So, a lot of what you’re doing when you’re writing is trying to pace the book and use the turning of pages to your advantage.
Tish (18:39-18:39):
Yes.
David (18:39-18:41):
There’s a suspense.
Tish (18:41-19:12):
There is. That’s part of what’s coming up. Even with the lion, they have to turn the page. Are they going to make it? Did something happen? It’s good to build that kind of anticipation. You can see from the artwork that they heard something. The little boy didn’t hear anything, but the dog and the girl heard him outside. They know Daddy’s coming home, and there he is. That’s the most powerful image in the book.
David (19:12-19:13):
Let me ask a really obvious question.
Tish (19:14-19:14):
Yes.
David (19:15-19:16):
Why animals?
Tish (19:16-21:06):
It’s very difficult, in my opinion, to do a book with real kids and make sure you don’t leave anybody out. If a child receives a 24-page book, compared to the 42 pages of Dr. Seuss books, they might wonder, “Where am I? Where’s the little girl that looks just like me?” In my opinion, it’s just not worth it.
Real people are hard to draw, especially when this illustrator does everything by hand. These are hand-painted with tiny brushes.
There’s a funny story about this one. Her name is Jill Guile, and she lives in London. Jill and I wrote a series called *Huff and Puff*. Huff was the front of the train, pulling, and Puff was the back, pushing.
I’ll tell you this story: when HarperCollins called me to write the *Huff and Puff* books, the first thing I said was, “That’s great! Huff, Puff, I can rhyme them.” There was a dead silence on the phone, and the senior editor said, “Rhyme? We didn’t really think about rhyme.”
Needless to say, they all rhyme. The first one was *Huff and Puff Have Too Much Stuff*, where they realize they just need each other, not all their belongings. Jill was the illustrator for that series. Few people know this, but authors and illustrators rarely talk to each other or even meet. I’ve certainly never met any of mine.
David (21:06-21:07):
Is that a deliberate feature?
Tish (21:07-21:53):
It’s just how it is. I’ve never spoken to the illustrator of my Dr. Seuss books, sent him an email, or even run into him at a party. There are many theories about this. One is that editors play such a huge role in guiding these books and ensuring they maintain a specific style, like Dr. Seuss. They might feel that if the author and illustrator connected, we might start making arbitrary creative decisions, like changing a hat’s color. I don’t know the exact reason.
However, I’ve never met him. Now, running my own company, Tish Rabe Books, which I started in 2020, I deal with both the words and the pictures. Before, I just submitted the words, and a year later, a finished book would magically appear.
David (21:53-22:03):
What makes for a really good illustrator? Obviously, the drawings are nice and make you smile. What else makes you think, “Wow, that’s a great children’s book”?
Tish (22:04-22:22):
The big thing is the expression. Look at this grandpa putting him to bed. Wouldn’t you love for him to read you a story and tuck you in? He’s just charming.
David (22:22-22:24):
He reminds me of the Kellogg’s tiger.
Tish (22:24-23:54):
Absolutely, it’s great. Look at the faces here. I could write a children’s book just about this one picture. How was the bunny’s day? What is the horse dreaming about? The famous part about this is the detail put in for fun. This rooster is just about to wake everyone up.
When you ask kids, “Do you see the rooster?” they search through all the details. Once they spot him, and I say he’s about to wake everyone up, half the time they’ll crow, “Cock-a-doodle-doo!” They really get into it. The detail and care are phenomenal.
Another helpful aspect of this book is that I like to give people tips on how to read to their kids. A big tip is to ask interactive questions, like “What was your favorite part of the story?” or “If you could be any animal, who would you be?” These aren’t yes or no questions, like “Was school today good?” Instead, they prompt deeper engagement, like “What was your favorite part of school?”
David (23:54-23:55):
So you wrote those questions?
Tish (23:55-25:04):
I did. Many parents need help getting their kids to sleep, so I wrote little suggestions in rhyme. For example: “Thirty to sixty minutes before you tuck them in is a good time for their bedtime routine to begin.” It’s not a direct command like “do this, do that.” Another tip is, “You can show them how to put away some of the things that filled their day.”
My personal favorite tip, which not many people know, is: “Read books to your children you love most of all, or tell them stories about you when you were small.” Here, the mama turtle says, “When I was a little turtle, I lived on an island far, far away.” Kids love hearing about you because you’re part of their life. So, if you’re on the beach and realize you forgot the books, just tell them a story about yourself. It truly works.
David (25:04-25:09):
Speaking of beginning, middle, and end, what do you feel are the key components of a good story?
Tish (25:10-25:44):
Kids have to care about the character. You must introduce them at the beginning to foster that connection. Amani is a good example. Children learn she lives in Africa and gives flowers to her friends. They’re already invested in her before the lion appears and scares everyone.
Readers need to be emotionally invested in what’s happening. If you don’t care about the characters, you won’t care about the story. In this book, the bear family, from the very beginning...
David (25:44-25:45):
This is the military book.
Tish (25:45-26:05):
Yes, the military book. “I have a story to share with you. It’s about my family. I am very proud of them, and they are proud of me. I have an important job to do, and sometimes we have to be apart. I want them to know, no matter where I am, they’re always in my heart.” Here, he’s telling the story from his point of view.
David (26:05-26:07):
I love these illustrations.
Tish (26:07-26:07):
I know.
David (26:07-26:09):
These are my favorites of any book.
Tish (26:09-26:11):
This is Jill Guile, also from London.
David (26:11-26:19):
Oh, my goodness. How do you approach the editing here? You were just talking about getting kids to care, but you don’t have many words to achieve that.
Tish (26:19-27:35):
That is correct. With older audiences, I can sometimes put eight lines in a spread, but other times it’s only four.
One thing I urge everyone: it is very important to have a professional editor. Our editor is from Sesame Street, and she reads everything I do. It is impossible to write a book like this without input from someone else.
When my kids were little, I had them read my Dr. Seuss books. If they stumbled at all, I would change it. The word “family” is tough; it can be pronounced “fam-i-ly” or “fam-ly.” You have to consider the rhythm. “Meteor” is also a tough word for kids.
You need an editor to read your work because you’re too close to it.
Another big tip: while you’re writing, and before it goes to an editor you’ll pay for, have someone who has never seen your work read it out loud to you, whether it’s a children’s book, an essay, or a magazine article.
David (27:36-27:37):
Somebody else read it.
Tish (27:37-28:04):
Have someone else read it out loud to you. You will find mistakes and misinterpretations. You might think it’s clear, but as a writer, you become immersed.
I spend years on these books, and you get so close that you might not notice if something is awry, simply because you’ve dedicated so much personal time to it. I really urge people to do that.
David (28:04-28:16):
Where does the editing happen? When I look at this book, there are two elements: the words and the images, and how they interact.
Tish (28:16-28:16):
Yes.
David (28:17-28:29):
You write in a spiral notebook. Do you then transfer that to a Google Doc, outlining the page breaks and editing the words before the images are created?
Tish (28:29-29:27):
Yes, 100%. The words always come first. You write your words, and underneath, you type “art” and describe to the illustrator what you envision for that page.
For example, it might say, “Daddy Bear is getting ready for work. Daddy Bear and the other members of his unit are boarding a helicopter.”
Then, talented artists draw these pictures, and they often have different ideas. Perhaps I wrote that he was eating breakfast, and the artist suggested we show him packing his backpack and getting ready for work. You get a lot of creative input from your illustrator, in addition to your own ideas.
David (29:28-29:45):
Can you tell me more about the opening pages of *There’s No Place Like Space*, which is all about our solar system? It opens quite fast. This is one of the Dr. Seuss Learning Series books.
Tish (29:45-29:49):
Yes, it’s part of The Cat in the Hat’s Learning Library.
David (29:50-30:02):
Exactly. “I’m the Cat in the Hat, and we’re off to have fun. We’ll visit the planets, the stars, and the sun. There is no place like space. I will prove it to you. Your mother will not mind at all if I do.”
Tish (30:02-30:43):
For those who might have noticed, those last two lines were in the original *Cat in the Hat* book. The interesting thing is that *The Cat in the Hat* book came out when I was about three or four years old. My mother, a newspaper editor, read it to me every day.
When I first started working on *The Cat in the Hat*, I realized I still remembered it: “I sat there with Sally. We sat there, we two, nothing to do...” I had listened to it so many times. Those last two lines are from his original book.
David (30:43-30:54):
Can you remind me exactly what you did with the Dr. Seuss family? Is it their family, or the people who own the intellectual property?
Tish (30:54-31:21):
I personally worked for Random House, which developed The Cat in the Hat’s Learning Library. The first two books they asked me to write were *Is a Camel a Mammal?* and *Fine Feathered Friends*.
I went on to write about 20 of them, and then I wrote 53 *Cat in the Hat* books. I just kept churning them out.
David (31:21-31:22):
You own 53 of them?
Tish (31:22-31:23):
Fifty-three. Yes.
David (31:23-31:24):
Holy Toledo.
Tish (31:24-31:40):
I know. I don’t even think we have all of them on our Tish Rabe Books website. We probably stopped updating the list around 180. They are very careful with how his characters are presented.
David (31:40-31:51):
You were joking about this earlier: “On Venus, the weather is always the same: hot, dry, and windy, with no chance of rain.”
Tish (31:53-31:57):
I know. It’s true, isn’t that funny?
David (31:57-31:58):
What is that?
Tish (31:58-32:21):
It was his rhythm. As soon as we started working for Seuss, we remembered we had to write in that specific rhythm. When I talk to students, I often quote one I remember well: “On the 15th of May, in the jungle of Nool, Horton the Elephant sat in the pool.”
You also asked me a minute ago about different kinds of rhymes.
David (32:21-32:22):
Yes.
Tish (32:22-32:32):
Dr. Seuss’s rhymes were pure. For instance, “cool” and “pool” is a pure rhyme.
David (32:32-32:33):
Okay, okay.
Tish (32:34-33:04):
“Barn” and “farm” are slant rhymes; they’re close, but not 100% accurate. When I started my own company and began writing my own books, I admit I sometimes allow slant rhymes. To maintain his rigid style, you sometimes can’t express what you’re trying to say. No one has ever asked me this before, but that’s a good example.
David (33:04-33:14):
I’m thinking in terms of rhymes. Sometimes you can’t say what you’re trying to say. “It’s hard to have fun and come and go play.” See, that would have worked.
Tish (33:14-34:08):
This is a perfect example: “It’s always hard to say goodbye when I have to go. But the next time I give you a hug, I’ll know I am home.” “Go” and “home” are a slant rhyme. Nothing truly rhymes with “home” except maybe “phone,” but you know what I mean.
So, you either go that route so you can have the word “home,” because the word you want on this page is “home.” Daddy Bear is safely home, and we hope all the brave service members in our country get home. That’s all anybody thinks about now. To have a rhyming story, knowing there’s no real rhyme for this, that’s why I did a slant rhyme, so I could hold on to that word. And I did.
David (34:08-34:20):
Another thing I’m noticing with these books—maybe not all of them—is that you’re writing them from the perspective of children. In that final image, it’s the child who’s in Dad’s hand. The child.
Tish (34:21-34:21):
Yes.
David (34:21-34:23):
The kid will relate to the kid.
Tish (34:23-34:24):
That’s right.
David (34:24-34:25):
And that’s who they’re...
Tish (34:25-35:34):
In this particular case, because United Through Reading has service members reading to their kids, they are not home; they’re on television. All the kids want is for them to come home. You feel in your heart that the tug here is that Sophia and the little boy—but she’s five, and this little girl bear is just waiting for him to come home.
The other interesting thing is that when I interviewed all these families, one thing they said repeatedly was that what helps these kids is telling them that when they look up at the moon, they know it’s the same moon Mommy is looking up at at night. “Every time you see the moon with its glowing light, know I am safe and you are safe and everything’s all right.” This helps them cope with missing their parents so desperately. It’s very powerful stuff.
David (35:35-35:46):
I think there’s a moment in *Night* by Elie Wiesel, which is obviously about a completely different subject, the Holocaust.
Tish (35:46-35:49):
Right, right, right. They said the same thing about the moon.
David (35:49-35:54):
One Holocaust movie or story, this is exactly one of the key points.
Tish (35:54-35:55):
That’s what it says.
David (35:55-35:56):
There’s something about the moon.
Tish (35:56-37:36):
It’s very powerful. I wrote a song, actually. This is funny. I wrote a book for Sesame Street about Elmo’s first sleepover. It was really cute. Elmo is going on a sleepover, and he’s not sure he’s up for it at all. His mommy hasn’t even left yet, and he’s thinking, “Whose idea was this?”
I literally took that book and was about to send it to Sesame Street when they asked, “Would you write a lullaby for us, for the book?” I tell this story all the time and embarrass my son, but it was 18 years ago, the week he was headed for college. I was so close to him; I didn’t want him to go.
So I wrote a lullaby for Elmo, although sometimes I think I wrote it for Johnny, my son. It goes: “There are lots of fish in the ocean. There are lots of flowers that grow. There are lots of birds flying in the sky. But I want you to know. There is just one moon shining in the night. The same moon shines on all of us when we say good night. So tonight, look at the moon, and I will do that too. When you go to sleep and start to dream, remember I love you. Remember I love you.”
I know; without a dry eye, what can I say? I just sent it off. It was that, and I put it on a piece of tape, and off it went to Sesame Street.
David (37:36-37:50):
Now, when you write a song like that, do you think of the melody as you’re writing it, or do you basically just write the words, like, “I’m writing a song,” and then somehow it gets lifted into a melody later on?
Tish (37:50-37:53):
I work with incredible composers.
David (37:53-37:54):
Composers.
Tish (37:54-37:55):
Yes.
David (37:55-37:55):
Wow.
Tish (37:55-38:03):
My friend Mike Levesque and I have, I think, somewhere around 65 songs. When I wrote for Disney, I had a composer.
David (38:03-38:05):
What did you do for Disney?
Tish (38:05-38:07):
I wrote songs for Disney book and audio.
David (38:07-38:07):
Okay.
Tish (38:07-38:17):
Many, many, many. “Every beautiful princess you happen to see is learning the alphabet from A to Z.” I can just go on like this for hours.
David (38:18-38:18):
That’s a good one.
Tish (38:18-38:32):
So I write the words, then I send them to the composer. He’ll send me something, then I’ll sing it, and we go back and forth a little bit. But we wrote for Sesame Street, Disney, everybody.
David (38:32-38:36):
What storytellers do you really admire?
Tish (38:37-39:51):
Growing up, I was a Beatrix Potter fan. When we were little, Beatrix Potter books were this big, and you carried them around. I loved that. My mother used to read us *The Wizard of Oz*, the original *Wizard of Oz*. Few people realize L. Frank Baum wrote *The Wizard of Oz* and then 10, 20, 30 other books based on that world.
Back then, of course, there were very few pictures, so my childhood was listening to the rhythm of my mother reading aloud. For example, “and then the clockwork man said, ‘It’s time for you to get out of here,’” and the other one said... All you had was your imagination, the sound of her voice, and imagining what the clockwork man was doing when people were throwing him out of Oz. What did it look like?
My brothers even say this: they’re convinced that the reason I’m a children’s book author is that she read to us every night, every single night. I have a picture of us; I think I’m four, sitting next to her. Because I was little and the only girl, I’m here, and then one brother, and then one brother, but we’re just hanging on every word. It’s amazing.
David (39:52-40:29):
I’m thinking about some of my favorite children’s books, the ones we read. This goes back to the point about animals. I think about *Where the Wild Things Are* — obviously, that’s 100% about animals. Then I think about *Babar* and the elephant.
When I was a kid, we met a pilot. Back then, little kids could go into the cockpit after getting off the airplane. I always loved airplanes. This pilot had an entire series of children’s books; I remember the main character was Wally the Widebody, a Boeing 747.
Tish (40:29-40:29):
Oh, he was a...
David (40:30-40:52):
It was all airplanes, all the characters. One thing that’s unique about children’s books, relative to other kinds, is that you can keep writing these series indefinitely. From a business perspective, that’s good.
From a child’s perspective, they can read different books every night, floating in and out of various titles within the same series.
Tish (40:53-41:27):
Yes. When I developed the I Believe Bunny — he’s here somewhere — he has different adventures. That’s another thing you can do. This is a good example of creating a little bunny. I called him the I Believe Bunny because he believed in himself; he believed he could make a difference. This is the one with the famous line: “Even you can make a difference, even a bunny your size.”
This is another example. Again, all I did was work with Frank Endersby, a beautiful illustrator from London. I just started with a beautiful day.
David (41:27-41:28):
Wow, that’s like watercolor.
Tish (41:28-41:51):
It’s watercolor; it’s beautiful. This was our inspirational line. God is involved.
“Once upon a time, in a land hard to find, lived the I Believe Bunny, who was funny and kind. He thanked God for his home in the flower-filled glen where the sun shined a lot.” To your point, the sun shined a lot, but it rained now and then.
David (41:54-42:01):
I think that’s a core part of children’s books. There’s a certain suspense embedded within the medium.
Tish (42:01-42:05):
That’s right. You just don’t know what will happen next. Exactly.
Tish (42:05-42:36):
You always want a real ending. Nothing like, “I don’t know what happened or where they ended up.” No, this has to have a clear conclusion.
At the end of this, they’re all happy. He saved his little friend, the mouse who couldn’t swim, and they’re on the riverbank with everything great. This is the one, just like the I Believe Bunny: “You may get a surprise. You can make a difference, even a bunny your size.”
David (42:36-42:47):
When I think of children’s books, words like inspiring, motivational, happy, and joyous come to mind. Have you written books that explore the opposite side?
Tish (42:48-42:56):
You mean sad? No, no, I write inspiring stories. Everything, 24/7.
David (42:56-42:57):
Twenty-four/seven.
Tish (42:57-43:36):
The world is a tough place. I think writing... one reason I wanted to write the military book was that soldiers were reading Dr. Seuss books, *Goodnight Moon*, and *The Very Hungry Caterpillar*. It was wonderful, but I wanted to tell their story.
What is it like explaining to your five-year-old at home what you’re doing? Here’s a good example: he tells her he has a friend—his friend, the pink flamingo in a flight suit.
David (43:36-43:40):
“I’m proud to serve my country, and I am proud of you.”
Tish (43:40-45:04):
This way, their children at home can see that they’re all right; it’s okay. Another thing I did in this book, which I’m very proud of and have never seen done before, is include tips from the people I interviewed. These were deployed service members who came home, and also parents who stayed home while their service member left and cared for the kids.
One of my favorites is, “When my husband leaves, he traces his hand on paper, and I put it up to the door so the kids can give him a high five every time they leave.” Who would know that unless you lived it?
I also wanted to share that a lot of military kids get bullied. Other kids don’t understand why their dad isn’t at football or why their mom never comes to the school play. They don’t know what’s going on. We urge people to understand that military families often move every two and a half years, meaning these children are “the new kid” in school repeatedly.
If you know of a military family coming into your community, I urge all of you to help them. They need everything: “Where’s the veterinarian? Where’s the library? What’s the best grocery store?” So, one of these back pages really urges everybody to help.
David (45:04-45:05):
What about a cover?
David (45:06-45:10):
What about a cover, a title, or a subtitle? What do you focus on with these elements?
Tish (45:10-46:02):
I have them all; they’re all over the place. A lot of my titles rhyme: *There’s No Place Like Space*, *Mystery Mystic by the Sea is the Best Place to Be*. For *The I Believe Bunny*, we tried to keep it short.
A couple of things are interesting to show. Let me hold this up for you, and the bunny one too. If you notice, we try very hard to have the characters facing into the book. Imagine what this would look like if it were flipped — it’s not easy.
Instead of him looking this way into the page, you’re looking into the book, and now you’ll turn the page right here. It’s tough to do, but imagine if he were over here, holding the little bunny. You’d be pulling the eye from the other side.
David (46:02-46:10):
A lot of advertisers do this, directing eyes to the call to action. It’s the same principle: it sells.
Tish (46:10-46:29):
They’re facing that way. It’s amazing the difference it makes. Sometimes it helps to have a character looking right out.
We were very careful to ensure that in the book, all the characters are looking at each other because Daddy Bear just got home. But then the character Alaska is looking at the reader. He’s looking right at the little reader, going, “Hello.”
David (46:29-46:31):
Hello, hello.
Tish (46:31-46:33):
I can’t wait to do an animation with him.
David (46:33-46:34):
I think he’s more like.
Tish (46:37-46:39):
He’s panting, exactly.
David (46:40-46:41):
There’s a word for this.
Tish (46:41-46:55):
There is. Everything we do starts with black and white sketches. I wanted to show you this because few people get to see them.
David (46:55-46:57):
Are you sketching this?
Tish (46:57-47:25):
An illustrator sketches it. The good thing about starting with a sketch is it gives us the opportunity to make changes. For instance, we might decide to move something or add a compass rose for north, south, east, and west.
You get to see it before the illustrator spends all that time adding color. So, it starts like this and ends up looking like this.
David (47:25-47:25):
So this is a sketch.
Tish (47:26-47:26):
That’s right.
David (47:26-47:28):
And then you work through it.
Tish (47:28-47:42):
Yes. Let me show you. This is the first sketch for the map and the little seagull family. It’s a big help to start this way.
David (47:42-47:51):
Interesting. When you sketch, you’re not thinking page by page, but rather two pages together, almost as a series.
Tish (47:51-48:39):
Interestingly, in children’s books, you have two formats: single pages and spreads.
You’ll notice here, the map on the left is a single page, as is the first page introducing the seagulls. But when you turn the page, you see the entire Mystic downtown. We call this a ‘spread’ — two pages forming one large picture.
The *Kindness is Caring* book also features many spreads. This is a great example of what goes into books; you have to consider this layout.
Here’s another spread, this one showing the seaport. So, when you’re writing, I urge everyone to think about what will be single pages and what will be spreads.
David (48:39-48:41):
When do you decide to use a single page versus a spread?
Tish (48:41-49:09):
You might use a single page for something like the Mystic Village, which is cute, and we like it, but it’s primarily stores.
It wouldn’t be as wonderful for a full spread as, say, the Mystic Aquarium or the famous Seaport, which are definitely spreads. A little place where you can buy chocolate, for example, is cute but only warrants a single page.
David (49:09-49:12):
How does the writing differ between a single page and a spread?
Tish (49:13-49:46):
For me, I generally stick to four lines per page, which means eight lines for a spread. Here’s a great example from a spread about the aquarium in downtown Mystic:
“Next, we’re off to the aquarium; we might see you there! Veterinarians treat the animals with lots of love and care. When we take our kids to this world-famous destination, we learn how to protect our planet through ocean conservation.”
See? ‘Conservation’ and ‘destination’ — this is what I do all day.
David (49:48-49:53):
If I just started throwing words at you, would you be able to rhyme them instantly?
Tish (49:53-50:38):
I am very good. We’ve discussed this before, but when I first started writing in 1986, Dr. Seuss was still alive.
He passed away in 1991, and I began writing for him in 1992. Back then, there was a computer program called ‘A Million Gajillion Rhymes.’ You could type in a word like ‘lemonade,’ and it would generate 50 rhyming options.
Now, 30 or 40 years later, I don’t need it, but I certainly used to.
David (50:39-50:42):
So it just comes to you? You hear a word like ‘might,’ then ‘sight’?
Tish (50:42-50:46):
Oh, yes. Fight, right, slight. Absolutely.
David (50:46-50:47):
Kite.
Tish (50:47-51:30):
Kite! Something fun we’ve discussed is how Dr. Seuss used to invent words when he couldn’t find a rhyme.
From *The Sleep Book*, I believe it’s, “Have you met the Van Vlecks? When they sleep, they yawn so wide you can see down their necks.” He created ‘Van Vlecks’ to rhyme with ‘necks,’ which is a tough word.
I wrote a 42-page book about pets. The line “Oh, the pets you can get,” posed a rhyming challenge. What rhymes with ‘pets’? ‘Gets’.
David (51:31-51:31):
That’s it.
Tish (51:31-52:08):
‘Gets,’ spelled G-E-T-S. So I decided to set the book in the town of Betz Gerplets. The mayor of Gerplets knows quite a bit about caring for pets.
Being in Gerplets meant I had a rhyme for everything related to ‘pets’ and ‘gets.’ Sometimes, like Dr. Seuss, when you’re cornered without a rhyme, making up words is a lot of fun.
David (52:08-52:11):
Do you ever choose not to rhyme? When do you want rhymes, and when don’t you?
Tish (52:11-52:16):
Ever since I started writing for Dr. Seuss, all my books rhyme.
David (52:16-52:17):
Oh, really?
Tish (52:17-53:55):
Bert and the Broken Teapot. My first one, one of the first, is what you call a prose book. If you just open it, Bert said to Prairie Dawn, “May I have some more milk, please?” “Coming right up,” Bert said. He was trying to serve his customers as fast as David did. As he reached for the milk, he dropped the teapot.
That’s one kind of writing; many children’s books are written that way. Since I have such a deep background writing for Dr. Seuss, I decided all of mine would rhyme. For the military book, I had to tell the story of Daddy Bear being away from his family in rhyme.
Another fun thing I did: I was obsessed with the movie *An Officer and a Gentleman*, with Richard Gere. They’re always marching to a certain rhythm, so I wrote a march for this book. It goes:
“I know we’re not together, but I’m here to say, I’m always thinking of you each and every day. We’ve got a busy day ahead, and I’ve got mine. It isn’t always easy, but we’re doing fine. And I love you. Thinking of you.
People say I’m brave, and I know that’s true. I want you to know that you’re brave too. When I’m home with you, or when we’re far apart, No matter where we are, you’re always in my heart. And I love you. Can’t wait to hug you.”
David (53:55-54:05):
It’s funny how many songs have a rhythm, and people then put other words into them. You hear that with “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.”
Tish (54:05-54:06):
Oh, please.
David (54:06-54:08):
I’ve heard so many versions.
Tish (54:08-54:12):
I’ve written probably 15 of them. I could sing them to you all afternoon.
David (54:12-54:18):
Why does “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star” work as a kind of shell container for other lyrics? The reason...
Tish (54:18-56:28):
It works, and this is an absolutely true story. I was writing this book, which for the first time ever, takes place in Africa. The Rotary Club I work with in Trumbull, Connecticut, arranged a Zoom call for me with three teachers in Uganda. I had never been able to talk to an end-user teacher during the creation of a book until then.
I mean this sincerely: I was working on a song, and I use “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star” a lot. I told them on the Zoom call, “I’m a little nervous because I’m writing a song to ‘Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.’ Does everybody around the world know ‘Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star’?” All three of them, without blinking, said, “Absolutely.”
Here’s another thing, which I share with writers out there: I thought I was halfway through writing this song. This is what I had:
“Every day we all can find Lots of ways to be nice and kind. Think of things that you can share, Take the time to show you care. Help your friends, it’s fun to do, You’ll help them, and they’ll help you.”
I had intended to write one more verse about something, but I hadn’t started it yet. Literally, all three teachers said, “It’s perfect. That’s short.”
The one I wrote for Central Park, coming out tomorrow, is longer. I had that one done already. It’s Central Park, so there’s a lot to talk about. The lyrics go:
“Central Park is here for you, There’s lots to see and lots to do. Every hour, monkeys ring a bell, You can ride the carousel.”
I’m very proud of that.
“Playgrounds, lakes, and waterfalls, And gardens, you can see them all. You’ll meet animals in the zoo, You’ll see birds and flowers, too. There’s room to play and room to run, Or have a picnic in the sun. Spend the day, it’s fun and pretty, In the heart of New York City.”
I’m just saying, it works every single time.
David (56:28-56:28):
It really does.
Tish (56:30-56:46):
Somewhere in the world, the person who wrote this song, but it’s been in the public domain for years. Everybody knows the song. You don’t have to include the lyrics or the musical notes; you don’t have to make a big deal out of it. It’s really fun.
David (56:46-56:50):
How is writing stories different from education, especially when you’re teaching kids something?
Tish (56:51-58:04):
This is a good example. Before he died, Dr. Seuss conceived the idea of teaching early readers about science through rhyme. The first thing I had to do for all of these books was go to the library and research the topic for kids.
This is educational publishing at its best. I went to the local library and took out all the children’s books on the topic. Someone had already simplified the science. I then took that simplified science, wrote about it in countless notebooks, and put it into rhyme so it would be accurate.
For example: “Next here is Mars. It’s the color of rust. We sneeze here because it is covered with dust.” Who knew Mars was covered in dust? Now you do, and it was correct.
However, I’ll share something few people know: We had this book all written, and it was doing very well, when suddenly the controversy about Pluto arose.
David (58:05-58:05):
Oh, yeah.
Tish (58:05-58:15):
Oh, boy. I had written this whole book about nine planets, and suddenly, bam, there were eight.
David (58:15-58:17):
That was the first thing that was ever taken away from me in this world.
Tish (58:17-59:08):
Oh, boy. My favorite part is this mnemonic for remembering the planets. It originally was: “Mallory, Valerie, Emily Meats, just served up 999 pizzas.” The “pizza” was for Pluto. Boom.
Then I received a call from Random House, asking if I would take this spread—these two pages—and change them to remove Pluto. If you look closely, you’ll see Mallory, Valerie, Emily has her arm up. Originally, she had pizza boxes stacked all the way to the top of the page because she was serving 999 pizzas. You’re with me so far?
David (59:08-59:09):
I’m completely with you.
Tish (59:09-59:34):
All right. I had to take Pluto out of the mix. I changed it to: “Mallory, Valerie, Emily Mickels, just showed us 999 nickels.” Now we have Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. No Pluto.
David (59:34-59:35):
Rest in peace.
Tish (59:35-1:01:27):
Rest in peace. All it meant was that the artist, who they didn’t want to ask to redraw the whole thing, only had to take the pizza boxes out and put the nickels in. But this gives you some idea of the creative process that goes into books like this that are factually correct.
Now, a little book like my original one, Bert Nurney, where we go Bert and Ernie on COVID. The Dr. Seuss books were educational; they were about science. They were accurate and approved by experts. Everything was perfect.
A book like this, *Bert in the Broken Teapot*, is a storybook. The educational part of this book is that people and friendship are more important than things. When I wrote this in 1986, believe it or not, we got so much fabulous feedback and beautiful letters from parents. They wanted the world to know that the important thing here was David loved Bert so much that he wasn’t angry at him for breaking a thing, but that he was his friend.
This is a book with an educational message, but it’s not about facts, the food pyramid, or that kind of stuff. It’s about caring for your friend.
This next project was interesting. My senior executive editor at Tishravi Books is a trained greeter at Central Park. You have to be trained to meet the people coming into the park. They arrive with their kids, they have their dog, and she kept getting asked over and over, “Where should I take my kids?”
“We’re here for an hour and a half in 843 acres. What do I do?” So she worked with me, and I worked.
David (1:01:27-1:01:29):
Go to the Bethesda Fountain. That’s where you’re going.
Tish (1:01:29-1:03:06):
It’s in here; it’s definitely in here: The Bethesda Fountain. So we worked with the Central Park Conservancy, and they helped us get the 24 things that kids and parents should see when they come to Central Park.
Another interesting thing is that, believe it or not, some people in the United States think the city of New York pays for the park. We knew that the Central Park Conservancy actually takes care of the park, so we wrote a little thank you for them. “Thank you, Central Park Conservancy. This park is world-famous. To keep it that way, the Central Park Conservancy works hard every day. Gardeners mow lawns, fix playgrounds, plant flowers and grass, rake leaves, shovel snow, and take care of the trash. We’re very grateful for all that they do. We want to thank them, and we know you do too.”
This was to help little kids understand that if you’re going to drop a lunch bag on the ground and walk away, somebody has to pick it up. I think that’s going to help.
Here’s another one I didn’t know: “Please leave balloons home. They are bright, pretty things, but birds can get tangled and caught in the strings.” I have to admit, I have a three-year-old granddaughter. If she’d said, “Can I take my birthday balloon with us into the park?” I don’t know that I would have said no, to be completely honest, until I was meeting with the park and the Conservancy. They were like, “No, this is awful for the birds.” But I didn’t know. So we put in some tips so people can take care of the park.
David (1:03:06-1:03:09):
Can I ask you about the business of doing all this?
Tish (1:03:09-1:03:09):
Yes, sure.
David (1:03:10-1:03:12):
Tell me about the business of doing all this.
Tish (1:03:12-1:04:03):
What is the business? That’s a good question. I have been hired by just about every publisher in the world. In some cases, not all, you either write a book for a flat fee—they pay the flat fee, you write the book, they take it over, they do the illustrations, they send you five copies, and you move on to the next one.
Happily, in the Dr. Seuss world, I get a royalty for every book sold. The nice thing about that is he’s so popular that the books sell very, very well. The funny part that nobody knows about except me and my husband is that you get paid twice a year: the first week in February and the first week in August.
David (1:04:03-1:04:03):
Okay.
Tish (1:04:03-1:04:08):
You have no idea what the check is going to be.
David (1:04:08-1:04:10):
So dinner on August 1st is very risky.
Tish (1:04:10-1:04:13):
Really risky. We’re either going out for hot dogs.
David (1:04:13-1:04:17):
Exactly. We’re either doing hot dogs or we’re doing steakhouse.
Tish (1:04:17-1:04:48):
Steakhouse. They send you an online report, and you can see how your books did every week. So, for all the books I have with Dr. Seuss and other publishers that I get royalties for, I can see how they did. It’s all over the place. Some weeks it’s in the thousands, some weeks it’s 20. Go figure, right? But the interesting thing is you do get paid twice a year, and you don’t have a clue.
David (1:04:50-1:04:59):
How is the business of children’s books different from hardcover, paperbacks, or 300-page novels—the kinds of books that are in these walls?
Tish (1:04:59-1:06:46):
For one thing, our books tend to be less expensive to buy. Our books average $9.99 or $10.99. The Central Park book is $12.99. So they sell, which means you have to sell a lot, is all I’m saying. Some of the adult books are $28.50 or whatever, but they do sell a lot of copies, which really helps.
My books are on tishrabibibooks.com and Amazon. It does add up. One of the things I’m trying to do in my company is write as many books as I can to increase the library. So, the whole thing is not resting on one book, which is hard.
One of the things about writing children’s books that I tell my family and will someday tell my grandchildren is that these books are timeless. *Goodnight Moon* was written, I think, in 1940-something. *Cat in the Hat* in the 50s. They’re around forever.
One of the interesting things on the business side of what I do is, unbelievably enough, I wrote two of the best-selling Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle videos of all time. Nobody believes it; who remembered? In 1993, I wrote *We Wish You a Turtles Christmas* and *Turtle Tunes*. Both of them were written with songs. They were music videos back in the music video days, and I wrote all the songs to public domain melodies.
David (1:06:47-1:06:48):
So what would those be like? “Mary Had a Little Lamb”?
Tish (1:06:50-1:06:54):
“I’ve Been Working on the Railroad.” “She’ll Be Coming ‘Round the Mountain.”
David (1:06:54-1:06:58):
“I’ve Been Working on the Railroad” — I think that’s the University of Texas fight song.
Tish (1:06:58-1:06:59):
Oh, there you go.
David (1:06:59-1:07:00):
I’ve been working on the railroad.
Tish (1:07:00-1:08:53):
That’s so funny. About seven months ago, I received an email notifying me that one of my songs from *We Wish You a Turtles Christmas*, “Gotta Get a Gift for Splinter,” was going to be used in a trailer for the new *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle* movie that had just come out.
I received this email asking, “Are you the Tish Rabe that wrote *We Wish You a Turtles Christmas*?” I wanted to ask how many of us there were, but I simply responded, “Yes, I am. How can I help you?”
They ended up paying me a significant amount, in my opinion, to use that song on the trailer for the new movie. This is a classic example of putting your creative work out there consistently, day in and day out, and never knowing what, where, or how it will take off.
I often tell my children and grandchildren that these rights can stick around forever. I was very impressed that Paramount Pictures didn’t just use the song without permission. It meant a lot to me financially, of course, but also because they respected my work. They were genuinely nice throughout the process.
Later, I received an email from a friend’s daughter who said, “I just took my kids to the movies, and all of a sudden, not only was your song on the trailer for the new *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle* movie, but your name appeared in the credits!” They included a credit, even for just 20 seconds. It was really nice. That’s the thing about creative media: you’re just tossing it out there, and who knows which piece will truly take off?
David (1:08:53-1:09:27):
I want to get back to the business aspect in a moment, but I have a philosophical question. You describe yourself as creative, and you clearly care about quality, your craft, and writing great books. Yet, you don’t strike me as precious or even stressed about your creativity. What internal narrative do you tell yourself to maintain this perpetual motion of ease and flow, while consistently producing excellent work?
Tish (1:09:28-1:09:48):
I absolutely believe, even when challenged by requests from people asking me to write certain things or help them write a book, that I will always come up with something.
David (1:09:48-1:09:50):
What is that? Faith? Belief?
Tish (1:09:50-1:12:13):
I think it’s experience. I’ve done this a lot. If someone comes up to me and says, “Could you write a story about a dancing water bottle?” I’ll come up with something. It’s practically written already.
A great example of this happened when I moved to Mystic, Connecticut. Mystic by the Sea is a wonderful place to be. As a newcomer running my own company, I decided to join the Greater Mystic Chamber of Commerce, hoping to connect with other small business owners for advice.
Soon after joining, I received a call from their membership chair, a beautiful young woman in her thirties. She asked if we could meet for coffee. I assumed she wanted to add my bio to their website.
As we sat across from each other, she said, “We were hoping you could help us.” I replied, “If I can, I will. What do you need?” She explained, “Our 100th anniversary is coming up, and we want you to write a children’s book.”
I looked at her and asked, “When is it?” She replied, “Six months.” I remember thinking there was absolutely no way I could pull that off. For the first time ever, as we sat in the coffee shop at the Mystic Seaport, I pictured four seagulls flying over her head. She kept talking about needing sketches and other details, but suddenly, the idea hit me: it would be about four seagulls who fly all over Mystic, taking everyone to the popular spots.
I did tell her the book would have to be 16 pages, not 24, as I wouldn’t be able to get it done in time otherwise. We designed the seagulls and hired an illustrator to draw everything. We managed to complete it in seven months. I would never attempt that timeline again, but we made it work. It was crazy, but I got it done. So, yes, it’s a belief.
David (1:12:13-1:12:13):
Yeah.
Tish (1:12:13-1:12:36):
Do I get stressed or anxious about these projects sometimes? Just the other day, I spoke at a virtual seminar for Girls Write Now, an organization for young women. Someone in the audience asked me if I ever get writer’s block. It was the first time anyone had ever asked me that, and I replied, “100% I do.”
David (1:12:36-1:12:37):
Oh, you do.
Tish (1:12:37-1:13:15):
What I do, and what I advise everyone, especially if you have a deadline—whether you’ve been hired to write a book or you have a printer deadline—is to always push it back. For example, I’m currently writing a book for HarperCollins that’s officially due in June. However, in my head, it’s due in May. I need to leave myself a buffer in case I reach a point where I simply cannot think of anything. So, if you have a deadline, I strongly recommend moving it forward to create a buffer.
David (1:13:16-1:13:26):
So, if I came to you for advice and said, “Tish, I’m working on a book, and I’m completely stuck. I’ve been stuck for a few weeks, and I’m panicking.”
Tish (1:13:26-1:13:26):
Yeah.
Tish (1:13:26-1:13:47):
I would tell you that you cannot force it. Go do something else. Work on a different project, or even take a couple of days off. You have to clear your head and get the problem out of your mind. What happens to me is that once I’ve cleared my head, the solution suddenly comes back, and it all makes sense.
David (1:13:48-1:14:01):
I heard a good line once: the “Three Bs” for when you get stuck. Bed, bath, and bus. Bed: go to sleep. Bath: chill, relax, just take it easy. And bus: go somewhere new.
Tish (1:14:01-1:14:01):
Go somewhere new.
David (1:14:01-1:14:30):
Go somewhere new. A change of scenery, a walk around. But I like that those are three B’s you can turn to when you’re stuck.
Let’s talk about the business of publishing. You were writing for other people for a long time, really just focused on the words. You mentioned earlier that you didn’t even meet the illustrators. Then, in 2020, you started your own business and now you see the entire production line. What did you learn about publishing, about how books get done, that you didn’t
Tish (1:14:30-1:19:25):
know before was how to choose an illustrator. This is Publishing 101, but I’d never had to do it.
For example, I knew I wanted Jill to draw this one because I’d worked with her before. Her style is so soft, sweet, and nice. When she draws little kids in bed, it’s exactly what you’re looking for. Her style isn’t right for everything—it wouldn’t work for a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles book—but for this book, she was perfect. So, choosing an illustrator was the first thing I had to deal with, and it was very, very difficult.
One thing I urge people, because I get this question every day, is if you self-publish a book, don’t get it illustrated. If you want an editor or editorial house to buy it, they really frown upon submissions that include both words and pictures. Very few people realize this. You might have written a book from your heart and had your dad illustrate it, creating a heartfelt project that lands on their desk. They might love your words but hate his pictures, or vice versa. You’ve now emotionally and intellectually married these two elements, which is risky. Submitting a manuscript is hard enough, but adding a layer that could go awry is another issue entirely.
So, finding the right illustrators—determining who is available and if you can afford them—was a significant challenge. We work with two phenomenal agencies in New York that have provided us with illustrators. When we did the book for Rotary in Africa, I specifically requested an African artist. I called the agencies and they found us a beautiful young woman who immediately understood what we were looking for.
I always have a clear image in my head of what these characters will look like. I envisioned a little girl zebra, and when Mocha sent her first sketches, there she was. The next step is understanding what black and white sketches will look like in color and navigating the entire production process.
We found a printer in New Haven, Connecticut, very near my home in Mystic, who prints our softcover books. Then you have to figure out your format. This particular book is seven and a half by nine inches. This other one is what we call an eight by eight, meaning eight inches by eight inches. This is a more grown-up format. Little kids love the square, cute size, but this one is not only more sophisticated but also gives us space for a double-page spread. This spread is 18 inches across—a foot and a half of space for the illustrator to draw. Here, the other zebras come to help the main character because she’s afraid a lion is on his way. This is how much space this format provides them.
Determining how many copies to print is always a challenge. Distribution is incredibly challenging. Getting on Amazon is not easy; some of my books are there, some aren’t. It involves a lot of paperwork. In fairness to Amazon, they are extremely careful. I literally had to have my husband scan my face on his phone so it matched my passport to get verified on Amazon because they work so hard to prevent nefarious activities.
It’s a big deal. I do book fairs, and I used to do school visits all the time. I’ve reached a point where a whole day is gone when you factor in getting to the school, talking to the kids, and then getting your stuff home. Running Tishrabi Books is exactly what I wanted to do; I absolutely love every minute of it. But it’s really a lot of work.
David (1:19:25-1:19:27):
Distribution is hard.
Tish (1:19:27-1:19:28):
It is.
David (1:19:28-1:19:52):
The prize to be won is great. If you gain the favor of a higher-up at Barnes & Noble and they say, “Tish Robbie, my favorite!” your book could be placed in the children’s section at an eight-year-old’s eye level in every single Barnes & Noble across North America. That would take care of a lot of what you’re striving for.
Tish (1:19:52-1:20:43):
It’s interesting because I’ve always been a bestselling author, but one of my little books is on the New York Times bestseller list every September. It’s called *The First Day of Kindergarten*.
You can’t make this stuff up, but they asked me if I would write it to the tune of “The Twelve Days of Christmas.” I thought, “Riding the bus to my school?” We then continued from there: “On the first day of kindergarten, I thought it was cool meeting new friends and riding the bus to my school.” Lo and behold, I sang it for my granddaughter’s school last week. You get through all 12 days, and there you are. It’s fun. It’s really fun.
David (1:20:44-1:20:52):
What is the biggest landmine to look out for in the work that you do from a business perspective? Then we’ll get into something else.
Tish (1:20:52-1:21:06):
From a business perspective, be careful with other languages. A lot of people ask, “Can’t we have it in Spanish? Or in anything?”
David (1:21:06-1:21:07):
This is about translations.
Tish (1:21:07-1:22:40):
Translations can be dangerous. You really need to understand the distribution channels for that market. Distribution in the English-speaking market is difficult enough, but to suddenly decide to do something in another language, you must ensure there is interest and established distribution channels. It’s a completely different landscape.
One thing I advise rhyming authors not to do is attempt to rhyme their books in different languages. It has been done, but it’s an enormous amount of work. For example, there’s already some discussion about translating this book into Spanish.
In that situation, the opening page says something like, “One morning, Samara looked out at the African plains and her heart swelled with pride. Her daughter Amani was close by her side.” For an international translation, I would probably write, “It was a beautiful day, and Amani and her mother were outside.” They don’t have to rhyme. American children who speak English love it because the rhythm helps them connect with the story.
I once had a friend tell me, referring to the line you quoted earlier, “When birds want to go on a winter vacation, they all take a trip, and they call it migration.”
David (1:22:40-1:22:41):
That is so true.
Tish (1:22:41-1:25:43):
Isn’t that great? He then said to me, “You’re right. Think about it: ‘Birds of a feather flock together’ or ‘Birds go in a group’ are completely different.” I had never actually heard anyone articulate that to me before. People like the migration example, but the other one is true too. “Birds of a feather flock together” — got it. “Birds like to fly in a group” is not the same. It’s fascinating what words can do.
I’ve even tried to have my girlfriends sing some of the songs in Spanish on my website, because we are interested in reaching other cultures. However, getting English books listed on Amazon is challenging enough. You really have to consider who will buy the book.
It’s amazing to me that these books I wrote when my kids were just toddlers—they are now 37 and 36—are still out there. One of my best stories, which I can end with, is truly amazing.
I have a runaway bestseller called *Oh, Baby, the Places You’ll Go!* It was the only time I heard from Dr. Seuss’s widow, Audrey Geisel. She called me herself. I picked up the phone, and there she was. In the early 1950s, a study found that if a pregnant woman reads, talks, and sings to her baby, when the baby is born, they will respond to her voice with a little wiggle of their hands or whatever.
She called and asked me to write *Oh, Baby, the Places You’ll Go!*, and the title at that time was “To Be Read in Utero.” She asked me to go to the library and read all 42 of Ted’s books. His name was Theodore Geisel, but they called him Ted. I did. I read *Horton Hears a Who*, *Horton Hatches the Egg*, *Yertle the Turtle*, and *Thidwick the Moose*, among others. I included a little snippet from each of them in this book.
One thing I absolutely believe is that you don’t need to have children to write for children. Dr. Seuss didn’t have any; he had two stepdaughters but no children of his own. However, the last page of *Oh, Baby, the Places You’ll Go!* is something I wrote, and I’m not 100% sure I could have done it if I hadn’t had my son and my daughter.
The last line goes something like: “And now that my voice burbles in your ear, with a bump-thumpy sound that is not very clear, the words you are feeling, please know in your heart, something that I wish you the very best start. It’s a scrumptious world, and it’s ready to greet you, and as for myself, well, I can’t wait to meet you.” I don’t think I could have written that. That’s the last page in the book. This is what I do all day.
David (1:25:43-1:25:44):
Well, it was nice to meet you.
Tish (1:25:45-1:25:46):
Nice to meet you too.
David (1:25:47-1:25:51):
I will greet you. It was good to meet you.
Tish (1:25:51-1:26:03):
It was fun, and thank you. To everyone: Reading and writing are both so exciting. Read a book or write a story. Start right now. Words to live by.
David (1:26:03-1:26:04):
Wonderful.
